I'm Leppy, and I'm a GABaholic. 12,056 12
09/23/2002 03:50 AM

Yes.



He knew how it was gonna go, and set in motion according to his own intentions. He is already looking back on it.



Next question.

Doc 7,105 13
09/23/2002 03:53 AM

Wow Leppy, who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?



So when, in two years, you're getting kicked in the teeth in a barroom brawl over similar argument ending logic, you can say "Well, at least God's happy about this!"



You're right, next question.

I appear to have previously misspelled Hasdrubal. 2,859 12
09/23/2002 04:10 AM

God is the tooth fairy for grown-ups.

Zappa Krappa 1,896 12
09/23/2002 04:14 AM

the impacted wisdom fairy?

I appear to have previously misspelled Hasdrubal. 2,859 12
09/23/2002 04:19 AM

Actually, this quote kinda goes against what I stand for. I may not believe in God or anything, but if I ever see any convincing evidence that He/She/It might exist, I'll consider the issue again. I didn't come to my decision lightly, but despite all the time and thought I put into it, I won't adhere to it stubbornly just to avoid being wrong. Therefore I'm accepting of others' beliefs, and don't like to put them down. I just came up with this quote a little while ago and felt like using it. That's all. Carry on.

Zappa Krappa 1,896 12
09/23/2002 04:21 AM

if there is in fact a god, and he is omniscient, then the answer is yes.

however, current "facts" do not point in that direction.



so Frost him. Frost him in his stupid Emerson.

Zappa Krappa 1,896 12
09/23/2002 04:25 AM

i like sleestack's post a while back (paraphrasing): i'm a militant agnostic. i don't know, and damnit neither do you.



my brother in law is a jehovah's witness. oh, the fun and good times we have.

I'm Leppy, and I'm a GABaholic. 12,056 12
09/23/2002 05:34 AM

Doc, I wasn't being vitriolic.

By definition, God is omniscient and therefore, won't be surprised by anything. He must be happy with it, cause it is the way it is only cause that's how he set it up.

Feeble, Iraqi Weapons Inspector #27 32,400 15
09/23/2002 08:10 AM

The Bible says that God, at one point, regretted that he had made man.



So, I'm taking the stand that God is not pleased at all with some of the decisions we make; plus, I figure being crucified was mildly unpleasant.

Feeble, Iraqi Weapons Inspector #27 32,400 15
09/23/2002 08:11 AM

I think God is going to especially regret what's going to happen when Scooter sees this thread and begins the argument that, if God is truly omnipotent, He's responsible for everything.



God told me that Scooter's wrong, you see.

Sunburntlass. Now with 2 days off! 86,684 14
09/23/2002 08:37 AM

There is no such thing as a god of any sort.



Religion was invented by grown ups to scare their kids into being good.

The Light Switch of Total Devestation 19,936 13
09/23/2002 08:37 AM

Leppy's right. It doesn't make sense for a God to have regrets.

Trae (I'm not a whore, but I play one on GAB) 156,785 17
09/23/2002 08:37 AM

Leppy's favorite word is vitrolic.

Bonky 75,728 15
09/23/2002 08:39 AM

I think God came to earth as Corey Hart several years ago and wore his sunglasses at night.

I'm Leppy, and I'm a GABaholic. 12,056 12
09/23/2002 08:49 AM

Vitriol is my fave description for that mood. I get to use it a lot on Gab.

Bonky 75,728 15
09/23/2002 08:53 AM

Vetriol is the vitamin choice for angry old people.

Trae (I'm not a whore, but I play one on GAB) 156,785 17
09/23/2002 09:07 AM

<action> gets Rx for Vetriol

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/23/2002 09:22 AM

I'm sure God will look back on September 11th and all the babies he gave cancer to and all the little girls who were raped by their fathers and he'll say "I had a plan. My plan was for all the brown people in Africa to starve to death so white guys who live in trailers in America could claim it happens because I have a plan, and they could sleep at night knowing if they quoted the bible once in a while it would make up for all the kiddy porn they looked at."

SalsaShark, Grandmaster Flashbulb 6,518 11
09/23/2002 10:34 AM

If the world were to end now, God would probably have some reservations about his little experiment. "For My sake," He'd say, "how could they believe all the crap in that Bible they made up? A quarter of the stuff in that damn Book was outrageously distorted, another quarter was garbled in about 200 translations, and the rest was out-and-out lies! Next time, I'm giving opposable thumbs to the dolphins, and to Hell with these friggin' monkeys."

Admiral Feeble 32,400 15
09/23/2002 11:18 AM

I'm sure God has a plan for your life, guys.



I'm pretty sure it involves sending me all your money so I can study the Bible and figure out what's going to happen in the stock market.

SalsaShark, Hazelnutbuttermilk Pancake 6,518 11
09/23/2002 11:19 AM

'cause 2,000 years ago, the Canaanites knew that biotech and pharmaceutical stocks would be primed for huge gains, right feebs?

Dirk Lately 14,001 13
09/23/2002 11:56 AM

I had a plan. We were going to go out to a nice restaurant, and have a quiet meal, and the children were going to behave. But the children did not behave, and I regretted going to the restaurant, and when we got home the children got smoted but good.

Cap'n Stuby 17,826 13
09/23/2002 12:23 PM

God will look back and say "I'm glad I gave Doc an ass tulip. That rocked. FREE BEER FOR THE ARCHANGELS" Then Boston will come and totally rock it out.

My hubby is gay 1,522 10
09/23/2002 12:29 PM

God got crucified? First Ford gets banned then they not only crucify Jesus, but his dad as well? What is this world coming to? What's next war in Iraq? TYCO goes bankrupt? Bill Gates loses 11 billion bucks worth of stock value? What?



If God does exist, I'm going to hell. If he doesn't exist, I'm just gonna end up being dust. If Buddha was right, I'll come back as a rat and live in one of them Hindu temples where they actually worship rats and give them milk and honey. If Allah exists, we're all going to hell, and instead of 10,000 virgins, we're gonna get 10,000 dildoes up our collective butts.



Meanwhile, bring on the ho's, pass the beer, lit me up another thai stick and who cares? I'm gonna be dead by the time I find out if I was right or wrong.

Ms. Trixxie Latrine and the Venomous Bungholes 65,021 15
09/23/2002 12:34 PM

As someone posted in a link last week, nowhere in the bible will you find God's signature. No one, except maybe dead people, know with 100% certainty exactley what God wants. Once again as posted last week if someone claims to, they are lying.

My hubby is gay 1,522 10
09/23/2002 12:39 PM

Exactly, why should I believe anything Moses has to say when for 40 years the assh0le wouldn't stop for directions?

Cap'n Stuby 17,826 13
09/23/2002 12:39 PM

Why did the Jews wander the desert for 40 years?



Someone dropped a quarter.

Squeamish 38,986 14
09/23/2002 12:42 PM

I have a Bible signed by God.



I signed it "God" in 4th grade to impress the kids in my Sunday school class.

Admiral Feeble 32,400 15
09/23/2002 12:43 PM

MHIG needs to review the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, which says that the Father Son and Holy Spirit are all different aspects of one reality.



And actually I think that gold stocks are the place to be right now. Historically the ratio of the DJI/(price per ounce of gold) is about 10, but right now it's about 13.

SalsaShark, Hazelnutbuttermilk Pancake 6,518 11
09/23/2002 12:47 PM

Dirty Jew Index?



oooooh man, if feeble's right i'm gonna burn for that one.

My hubby is gay 1,522 10
09/23/2002 01:04 PM

*Chairman Kaga, of Iron Chef*



If my memory serves me correctly, The Father sent his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON to Earth to wash away our sins. He caught Mary Magdalene during that time of the month, hence the Red Sea.



The Holy Trinity, is a purely Catholic invention, not Christian dogma. The made it so they would save money on the printing, I suspect.



I mean, Jesus did say that the only way to His Father was through Him, so he did have a Daddy, other than Joseph "The Cornutto", of course.

Squeamish 38,986 14
09/23/2002 01:15 PM

The Dow is currebtly about 24 times the price of Gold (7830 vs 323)



The Dow and the price of Gold have historically been unrelated. Since 1975 Gold has just about doubled in price. The Dow has gone up ten-fold.

Doc 7,105 13
09/23/2002 02:46 PM

Pain



Technically Jesus and God are one and the same. Jesus was a man, but he was also God at the same time.



"I think God is going to especially regret what's going to happen when Scooter sees this thread and begins the argument that, if God is truly omnipotent, He's responsible for everything."



Here, I'm shady on this part, can anyone tell me once and for all whether or not God is supposed to know the future?

SalsaShark, Hazelnutbuttermilk Pancake 6,518 11
09/23/2002 02:47 PM

God knows enough to know that the future, the present and the past are all as one, Doc-san.

Doc 7,105 13
09/23/2002 02:48 PM

It would seem to me that he definetly is *not* omnipotent. That he definetly doesn't know what will happen as a result of his actions.

Stinky 7,952 12
09/23/2002 02:48 PM

Not all Christian religions believe that Jesus and God are one in the same, though they verify that Patrick Swayze and Kurt Russell are.

700g 20 10
09/23/2002 03:20 PM

Apparently inventing a religion is a great way to get laid. A lot of folk are doing it now-a-days.

Sometimes the government has to kill them all, but hey...the odds are small.

Pants 14,252 17
09/23/2002 03:28 PM

The voice of God is government.

Sexy, who named it NAVY 12,287 12
09/23/2002 04:03 PM

All's I think is, if there is in fact a God (which I tend to think there may be such a "power" in this universe, although I think it is about as far removed from any heretofore human concept of God as you could imagine) then that God probably put us here for some kind of test.



And, I'm fairly certain that as a race, we are failing. Miserably.

Dirk Lately 14,001 13
09/23/2002 04:07 PM

We don't succeed or fail as a race, we succeed or fail as individuals. Let go of my ankle!

SalsaShark, Hazelnutbuttermilk Pancake 6,518 11
09/23/2002 04:12 PM

sexy, i'm comforted by the thought that maybe god or power or the great pumpkin is a complete jackass, and he thinks we're totally awesome.

Gonzo With Bleach Alternative 20,522 17
09/23/2002 04:17 PM

I think that "God" is just running this little experiment for emperical data.



Like the vast majority of experiments, this one will not end up proving or disproving anything.



Now, the "universe" in the "petri dish" four over to the left of ours... Man, there's some interesing Shakespeare going on in there. Those little bastards are gonna help him win the God equivalent of the Nobel prize.

My hubby is gay 1,522 10
09/23/2002 04:21 PM

Guys, do me a favor, go read your New Testament.



I can't remember ONCE Jesus saying that He was God.



He always referred to Himself as being the SON of God, His father.



I'll say it again, that whole Trifecta thing is only used by the Catholic church, not by any other Christian church. If you remember correctly most prayers end up with "We pray to you in the name of Jesus, Amen"



In lay terms, GOD is the Chairman of the Board, the CEO, the CFO and the President. Jesus is just the VP of Human Resources and Spokesperson.

Sexy, who named it NAVY 12,287 12
09/23/2002 04:22 PM

MHIG, I have to tell you that I gave you clickies for your other post for the great IC ref.

Declan McChackens 131,867 36
09/23/2002 04:26 PM

If God is the CFO, the CEO, maybe even the COO, then right now, it feels like he's ducking my calls.



and if Jebus is the VP for HR, he needs to reevaluate his hiring criteria- how else to 'splain Jerry Falwell, and Anne Graham Lotz?

Feeble, Knight of the Old Code 32,400 15
09/23/2002 04:27 PM

Well, I've been in a variety of Protestant Churches over the years, and they ALL had the doctrine of the Trinity.



"I and my Father are One".



"He who has seen me, has seen the Father".



And a significant number of other verses.



Plus, Christ's fave title for himself was "Son of Man". Go look at the book of Daniel and see who you think the Son of Man might be.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/23/2002 04:28 PM

I don't see God as a CEO, I see him more of a.... um... what do you call the head shepard at a sheep farm?

Stinky 7,952 12
09/23/2002 04:28 PM

Yeah, and I should of been fired by now. Nobody else lets me stay for masturbating in the workplace.

Doc 7,105 13
09/23/2002 04:31 PM

Stinky, haven't you said that before? Like, almost those exact same words?

Doc 7,105 13
09/23/2002 04:32 PM

Oh yeah, and



Is God supposed to know All?

My hubby is gay 1,522 10
09/23/2002 04:33 PM

The head sheperd is called a boy from Arkansas.



Is the Son of Man the Isle of Man's brother?

Callie Mollari 14,455 13
09/23/2002 04:42 PM

. what do you call the head shepard at a sheep farm?



SheepFroster?

Manhattan Fever, P.I. 11,939 13
09/23/2002 05:00 PM

Oh Shakespeare, not this philisophical bullShakespeare. Man is god, God is Man we are one with nothingness and everything with the oneness.



lights incense

I'm Too Sexy For This Goldfish 12,287 12
09/23/2002 05:08 PM

Thou art God.





</Michael Valentine Smith>

Feeble, Iraqi Weapons Inspector #27 32,400 15
09/23/2002 07:28 PM

Sexy - are you offering to become a water brother with me and grok?

Feeble, Iraqi Weapons Inspector #27 32,400 15
09/23/2002 07:28 PM

And by 'grok' I mean have the sex until my heart gives out.

Bean 8,503 19
09/23/2002 10:09 PM

I'm sure God will look back on September 11th and all the babies he gave cancer to and all the little girls who were raped by their fathers and he'll say "I had a plan. My plan was for all the brown people in Africa to starve to death so white guys who live in trailers in America could claim it happens because I have a plan, and they could sleep at night knowing if they quoted the bible once in a while it would make up for all the kiddy porn they looked at."



How many times must I tell you that God does not make people sick? God does not kill young people. The only people's deaths that god is responsible for are the ones that are old and have died 'naturally.' Not of disease. If this were not the case then the Bible would not be full of people being healed of diseases because of their faith.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/23/2002 10:12 PM

I know that, Silly. God doesn't kill people, nature does.



Then the dead people get eaten by worms and the living ones pretend they're with the angels now.

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/23/2002 10:15 PM

According to The Bible (c) 0, God Inc., God made everything.



Therefore God made disease too.

Gonzo. 20,522 17
09/23/2002 11:47 PM

Who made God?

I'm Too Sexy For This Goldfish 12,287 12
09/23/2002 11:49 PM

Did Anne Frank find Jesus?

Feeble, Iraqi Weapons Inspector #27 32,400 15
09/23/2002 11:52 PM

God clearly did make diseases. The Bible describes this as being a consequence for our sinful natures.



We were gonna live forever, see, and Adam screwed it up.

brother bill 1,905 13
09/24/2002 12:49 AM

" "

Fronzel Neekburm 15,959 13
09/24/2002 01:11 AM

<action>Conducting Vienna Boys Choir



All things dull and ugly

All creatures short and squat

All thing rude and nasty

The Lord God made the lot



Each little snake that poisons

Each little bee that stings

He made their horrid venom

He made their nasty wings



All things sick and cancerous

All evil great and small

All things foul and dangerous

The Lord God made them all



Each nasty little hornet

Each beastly little squid

Who made the spikey urchin?

Who made the sharks? He did.



All things scabbed and ulcerous

All pox both great and small

Putrid, foul and gangrenous

The Lord God made them all

Fronzel Neekburm 15,959 13
09/24/2002 01:12 AM

I'm just conducting, not doing anything else.



It is easy to tell. I'm not a priest.

Gonzo. 20,522 17
09/24/2002 01:50 AM

I think that existance of Cookie Crisp is proof enough of some divine being.

Ms. Trixxie Latrine and the Venomous Bungholes 65,021 15
09/24/2002 11:11 AM

The chemical and molecular properties of the water molecule are conclusive evidence of a grand intellegence behind the universe. Feebs, please explain better: my freshman chemistry for social science majors is really rusty. I can remember that the H2O molecule should't exist and can not be covalently bonded, yet it does and is, and because of it's unique shape has a Shakespeareload of properties that actually make life possible. Now the whole Jesus thing, I really think that may all be a metephor, the bible is full of a load of bullShakespeare, the trinity was the (catholic, only one at time) church's attempt at the begining of christianty to incorporate as much pagenism as possible into this wonderfull new religion that was going to concor the world, e.g. christmass and winter solstice being the same damn thing. Most pagen religions had a three part God-Head.





















Your Welcome































Next Soulution

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 11:13 AM

Trix, that's a load of creationist nonsense.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 11:13 AM

I mean, the crap about water being "conclusive evidence"

psychaholic, now with gravy! 4,888 13
09/24/2002 11:30 AM

I can say from experience, arguing religion with these 'folks' will only get you frustrated.





And you'll still be a retard.

Ms. Trixxie Latrine and the Venomous Bungholes 65,021 15
09/24/2002 11:32 AM

Yes, but if you started the thread, it's a huge rankings boost.

psychaholic, now with gravy! 4,888 13
09/24/2002 11:33 AM

Oh, yea. I forgot about rankings.



I wonder where I'm at now...?

Vex Chackles of Luv 5,948 11
09/24/2002 11:40 AM

Did Anne Frank find Jesus?



Mad props on the reference, Sexy!



I always laugh myself stupid when I hear that little ditty.

I'm Too Sexy For This Goldfish 12,287 12
09/24/2002 11:48 AM

That is, by far, one of the funniest things I have ever heard, or will ever hear, in my life. Whenever initiating an Ani virgin, that is one of the first things I make them listen to.





And, they had, like, some sort of excessive hygeine going on... They were born, like, six or seven times...

SalsaShark, Varsity Letterhead 6,518 11
09/24/2002 12:21 PM

Ani turned 32 yesterday. did you people celebrate a holiday? did a fleet of jettas zip madly about, bras waving freely from radio antennae?

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 12:22 PM

Ani has to be one of the best guitar players around, male or female.



To bad that "bitter scorned chick from hell" has already been done to death.

Feeble, possessed by the demon Chackens 32,400 15
09/24/2002 12:27 PM

Trixxie, the only thing I know that's unique about the water molecule is that it expands when it freezes. This is not essential for life, but it's pretty darn useful (otherwise all the fishies in northern lakes would get frozen).



This is due to the angles formed by the hydrogen atoms as they adhere to the oxygen atoms. The crystaline form of water is less densely packed than a jumbled bunch of barely moving but still liquid atoms.

I'm Too Sexy For This Goldfish 12,287 12
09/24/2002 12:32 PM

Yeah.



Ani kicks ass as a guitarist.



And, she's actually moving away from the scorned/pissed off lesbo thing. She even married a dude.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 12:40 PM

What kind of glutton for punishment man would marry Ani?



"Honey, I..."



"JUST BECAUSE I HAVE A VAGINA DOESN'T MEAN I AM YOUR HONEY. GET DOWN AND BARK LIKE A DOG, SCUM!"

Superbowl Shuffle 19,936 13
09/24/2002 01:21 PM

Trixxie, God getting a chick pregrnant and having babies is a much more pagan concept than God incarnating himself as a human.

SalsaShark, Varsity Letterhead 6,518 11
09/24/2002 01:23 PM

i can't believe the females allowed you to marry one of their own, nutbutter, let alone let you spawn.

Admiral Feeble 32,400 15
09/24/2002 01:59 PM

The Hindu concept of an avatar isn't pagan? Silly me.

I'm Leppy, and I'm a GABaholic. 12,056 12
09/24/2002 02:06 PM

Water is unique in hydrogen bonding more than anything, as that allows for adhesion (and thereby the cappillary effect), cohesion (allows for precipitation), unique freezing(see feeble's fishy post), high specific heat (it regulates temperatures-the moon changes temps hundreds of degrees between night and day), and one or two other things, that are unique or rare to water.

dinesh 24,862 16
09/24/2002 02:41 PM

it's also a prime ingredient in the squishy.



/apu the hindu

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 03:28 PM

yeah, and Fox TV will show you an equally "convincing" video about how the moon landing was all a hoax.

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/24/2002 03:29 PM

Very convincing.



Perhaps you can buy more videos with that Nigerian money deal coming in...

psychaholic, now with gravy! 4,888 13
09/24/2002 03:44 PM

Ooohhhh. Sleastack reads Wired!

Doc 7,105 13
09/24/2002 03:53 PM

hehehehe



Yeah, I just came back into the foray if anyone can me whether or not God is supposed to be omniscient.



















Of course, if you want to know the real truth, I'll tell you.



Gravity. God is Gravity. Yeah, I'm not kidding.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 04:05 PM

Well, Doc, everyone was pretty much agreed about the non-existance of God until Bean told us all about a scienmetific video she has that proves god not only exists, but also lives in a trailer park in Southern Oregon.

Marilyn 12,471 13
09/24/2002 04:08 PM

Wow! A lot of you don't believe in God!



Makes sense on many levels because the teachings of God cause people to look good and be popular with the members of the opposite sex.

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/24/2002 04:10 PM

I read Wired back when it was Stringed.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 04:11 PM

Makes sense on many levels because the teachings of God cause people to look good and be popular with the members of the opposite sex.



You mean like Feeble, Squeamish, and that butt-ugly John Hargrave?

Ms. Trixxie Latrine and the Venomous Bungholes 65,021 15
09/24/2002 04:13 PM

Well, there is no conclusive evidence of a transitional species say reptile-mamal to support the THEORY of evolution. Doc, while the great spirt/loving forces of the universe is omnescient, he/she/it allows us free choice in our actions so all is not preordained and since not preorained, not knowable. There is also no conclusive evidence to support the theory that time in non-linear.

SalsaShark, Varsity Letterhead 6,518 11
09/24/2002 04:16 PM

it doesn't matter how much or how little evidence exists to support any given theory, Trix - all that matters is whether or not it can be disproven.



for instance, someone could theorize that you're straight, but i've got a doorknob here that makes a hell of an argument to the contrary....

Doc 7,105 13
09/24/2002 04:19 PM

Like I said, you guys always have religious debates, so I figured I'd get you started on a *different* tract other than the existance/non existance of God.



But that didn't work out, so I really just want to know



IS GOD SUPPOSED TO BE OMNISCIENT



Do any of you christians know whether or not he's actually supposed to be omniscient? Because that's a pretty heavy factor, in my opinion.

H y p e r s p a z: z a p s r e p y H 3,290 11
09/24/2002 04:19 PM

Jesus saves.

Marilyn 12,471 13
09/24/2002 04:20 PM

These are the exceptions.



Squeamish ate his God.

And John annoys his God.

Feeble creeps out his God.



If you want an example, just ask yourself if you believe in God and then look in the mirror.



Support enough.

Doc 7,105 13
09/24/2002 04:20 PM

But I don't want to get into a debate with any of you, because that'd be like arguing over you guys what is the best way to stimulate the clitoris.





...





There, now you see?

psychaholic, now with gravy! 4,888 13
09/24/2002 04:21 PM

it doesn't matter how much or how little evidence exists to support any given theory, Trix - all that matters is whether or not it can be disproven.



You well on your way to proving yourself unequiped to argue the point.



for instance, someone could theorize that you're straight, but i've got a doorknob here that makes a hell of an argument to the contrary....



Well isn't it just so easy to resort to this kind of arguement when we have nothing thoughtfull to say.

Marilyn 12,471 13
09/24/2002 04:22 PM

IS GOD SUPPOSED TO BE OMNISCIENT



God is omniscient. Bad things only happen when he's sleeping.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 04:22 PM

Doc, everyone knows the best way to stimulate the clit is with a checkbook.

Ms. Trixxie Latrine and the Venomous Bungholes 65,021 15
09/24/2002 04:25 PM

No theory can be conclusively disproven, There is no life on any other planet in the universe - prove it; There is no God - prove it; I am not a heterosexual - prove it - what does the doornob look like ?

SalsaShark, Varsity Letterhead 6,518 11
09/24/2002 04:26 PM

fantastically easy, psychoholic.



Do any of you christians know whether or not he's actually supposed to be omniscient? Because that's a pretty heavy factor, in my opinion.



"Yeah, 24 bucks in beads is a GREAT price for this island!"



"God told me to kill everyone in this town, and claim it for him. Oh, you live here? Sorry. [WHACK!]"



"Nope, I didn't see a single human being in my trip to Australia. The place is empty. Ghost town."



history has demonstrated, Doc, that listening to the Christians is not a sound long-term policy.

Marilyn 12,471 13
09/24/2002 04:28 PM

And for the record, nobody has been able to prove that God doesn't exist.



Therefore he could.



Or couldn't.



A more compelling question would be do you think God dresses well.

SalsaShark, Varsity Letterhead 6,518 11
09/24/2002 04:29 PM

He ain't shoppin' at Payless, that's for damn sure!

Ms. Trixxie Latrine and the Venomous Bungholes 65,021 15
09/24/2002 04:33 PM

Yes, and I heard he prefers Absolute to Grey Goose.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 04:33 PM

His son wears nothing but loincloths.



"One cloth. Loin type."

Marilyn 12,471 13
09/24/2002 04:46 PM

Yes, and I heard he prefers Absolute to Grey Goose.



A sacriledge!

The Light Switch of Total Devestation 19,936 13
09/24/2002 04:47 PM

"No theory can be conclusively disproven, There is no life on any other planet in the universe - prove it;"



You could prove that there is no live on any other planet by visiting every planet in the universe and verifying that there is no life there.

amymtn 662 10
09/24/2002 04:49 PM

There is no such thing as this 'god'.



Jeez, people, didn't you learn the difference between fantasy and reality?

The Light Switch of Total Devestation 19,936 13
09/24/2002 04:55 PM

You're like the atheist version of Bean

The Light Switch of Total Devestation 19,936 13
09/24/2002 04:57 PM

I think that the problem with Bean's creationist videos is that they aren't famous enough. What we need to do is show them to Stephen Hawking so he'll go "omigawd I can't believe I missed that!" and then he'll write a popular book proving the bible and the world will be perfect and jesusified.

Ms. Trixxie Latrine and the Venomous Bungholes 65,021 15
09/24/2002 05:15 PM

You could prove that there is no live on any other planet by visiting every planet in the universe and verifying that there is no life there.



Don't have time to read the article right now, but such a task is well, well beyond human ability and given the limitations of relitivity theory impossible toboot.

Ms. Trixxie Latrine and the Venomous Bungholes 65,021 15
09/24/2002 05:16 PM

and Mairlyn NO, A Sacrement

The Light Switch of Total Devestation 19,936 13
09/24/2002 05:19 PM

point is a theory can be proven wrong. you can prove a negative.

The Light Switch of Total Devestation 19,936 13
09/24/2002 05:27 PM

also because everyone involved with creation videos are quacks

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 05:28 PM

They aren't popular because anyone with an IQ over 60 knows they're produced with a certain agenda in mind and any hack "filmmaker" with a HandiCam can find someone willing to provide "proof" of something.



"And now here to provide scientific proof of creationism, Dr. Nick Riviera!"



"Hi everybody!"



"HI DOCTOR NICK!"

psychaholic, now with gravy! 4,888 13
09/24/2002 05:32 PM

Well, I could tell you how I came to believe in God.. (as quickly as possible)



Try just accepting for a minute that God exists. See how you feel after that minute.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 05:34 PM

I feel like he owes us all an explanation.

psychaholic, now with gravy! 4,888 13
09/24/2002 05:35 PM

Gotta come up with something funny really quick now. That last one was a comedic anchor.

psychaholic, now with gravy! 4,888 13
09/24/2002 05:36 PM

Uhhhhhhhh, uhhhhhhhhhh...



cottage Cheeze.



No, wait! Don't press submit... WAIT. AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

3,290 11
09/24/2002 05:37 PM

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Dead Robot 67,630 16
09/24/2002 05:40 PM

Thank god for Alt+F+"dead robot" feature. I'd have to actually read this thread.



Good to see you're not talking about me.

The Light Switch of Total Devestation 19,936 13
09/24/2002 05:41 PM

I spent the first 2 decades of my life believing that. So I don't think it's gonna work.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 05:42 PM

dead robot

Dead Robot 67,630 16
09/24/2002 05:44 PM

Ford prefect evil panda etc etc

Dead Robot 67,630 16
09/24/2002 05:56 PM

Jeasus is light is love his hope is truth!



I love Jeasus!

181,255 35
09/24/2002 05:57 PM

*Ctrl + F + Jesus*



Silly Christians

Dead Robot 67,630 16
09/24/2002 05:58 PM

Hello Jeasus!

181,255 35
09/24/2002 06:01 PM

Hi Ted!



New shoes?

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/24/2002 06:04 PM

For the love of... something, please please please learn the nature of the scientific method before dismissing the entire thing as the agenda of the pocket-protector-clad.



That's all I'm gonna say. Not gonna be drawn into this again. No sir. Uh-uh. Nope. Ain't gonna happen.

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/24/2002 06:20 PM

Way too many improbabilities/gaps/etc



You've GOT to be kid... no no... must... resist...

Doc 7,105 13
09/24/2002 06:34 PM

I tend to side against evolutionists. The way it seems, evolution was a means, not and end.



As Bloom County put it, every once in a great moon, the turgid scientist must look up at the stars and the sky and shout



"THE UNIVERSE SEEMS JUST A LITTLE TOO DARNED ORDERLY TO BE JUST AN ACCIDENT!!"

Doc 7,105 13
09/24/2002 06:43 PM

So there.

H y p e r s p a z: z a p s r e p y H 3,290 11
09/24/2002 06:45 PM

Who cares. I am gonna go grab another beer.

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/24/2002 07:41 PM

Ah yes. Kent Hovind is such a well-regarded scientist.



And the number one reason to believe that this man is a crackpot.... here.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 08:00 PM

I find it interesting that there is so much information supportive of creation



Besides the bible, what else is there?

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 08:01 PM

Oh, and Slee, have I told you lately that I love you?

The Light Switch of Total Devestation 19,936 13
09/24/2002 08:18 PM

I'm officially declaring my support for Fords enforced eugenics program.

Feeble, Iraqi Weapons Inspector #27 32,400 15
09/24/2002 08:36 PM

And that right there, Lightswitch, should convince you that you're headed down a bad logical path.

Feeble, Iraqi Weapons Inspector #27 32,400 15
09/24/2002 08:43 PM

Let me say this about the Scientific Method, with which I have some familiarity:



A theory needs to explain the available facts, and be testable. Neither evolution or creation is directly testable, in the sense that a single experiment can be performed that prove or disprove said theory.



To be judged the best theory, a theory must not only fit the available facts, but also fit them better than the competing theories. If you read a book arguing for evolution (such as those by J. S. Gould), you will find, time and again, statements like this: "And God wouldn't do this ...", where "this" is something like "create things that are imperfect" or "reuse a set of genes found in another creature" or whatever.



What this means is that, even if evolution is completely true and Biblical creation completely false - teaching evolution in the schools is still teaching religion, because ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT THE NATURE OF GOD ARE REQUIRED TO SAY THAT EVOLUTION FITS THE FACTS BETTER THAN VARIANTS OF CREATION.



Sorry for shouting, but I know you athiests are about to start insulting me, given that the facts are indisputable.

dinesh 24,862 16
09/24/2002 08:45 PM

i posit that you are dumb.



QED.



i got your theory right here, mister!

H y p e r s p a z: z a p s r e p y H 3,290 11
09/24/2002 08:47 PM

Evolution is stupid. Except with this chick I knew once. We were like doing the nasty in bed, and she litterly turned into a some sort of creature, screaming and yelling. It was scary, yet...satisfying...hmmm..



*dialing number*

Feeble, Iraqi Weapons Inspector #27 32,400 15
09/24/2002 08:54 PM

That's DEVOlution, and it normally only occurs to hippy rock bands if you've taken too many drugs.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 08:58 PM

teaching evolution in the schools is still teaching religion, because ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT THE NATURE OF GOD ARE REQUIRED TO SAY THAT EVOLUTION FITS THE FACTS



Um... no.



Teaching evolution in schools is not taking into account that there may possibly be a god, the way it should be in a public school.



Creationism requires that there be a god in the picture. Evolution does not. It doesn't require that there NOT be a god, it just doesn't stick a god into the equation.



Athiesm is not a religion. It's living your life without the influence of one.

Bean 8,503 19
09/24/2002 09:33 PM

I'd argue that point. I have a good friend who is a "devout atheist" and she basically considers it her religion.

The Lady Trixxie 65,021 15
09/24/2002 09:36 PM

Okay, I went back, have all the time in the world and have no desire to read that article.

The Light Switch of Total Devestation 19,936 13
09/24/2002 09:37 PM

There is some evidence for evolution. Possibly enough to be convincing. Possibly not. Maybe there's some holes in the theory.



There is no evidence at all for creation.



some > none

The Light Switch of Total Devestation 19,936 13
09/24/2002 09:39 PM

I got that article from Vertical Bob. Don't like it? Kick his ass.

Bean 8,503 19
09/24/2002 09:41 PM

Some reading



Not Kent Hovind

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/24/2002 09:44 PM

And a refute.

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/24/2002 09:52 PM

Besides, I can dismiss it already just in his introduction:



How do those who deny the influence of a supernatural Creator claim that the universe, including the earth and its multitude of life forms, came into being? They say that everything "evolved" into existence, but that is not an explanation. It is simply another way of saying that everything arose through a process of natural transformation. It does not describe HOW natural processes produced the cosmos (galaxies, stars, and planets) and the abundance of life we see on earth.



Saying things "evolved" does not, in fact, say ANYTHING concerning the validity of a Supreme Being. It merely attempts to explain the observable process, and use what means are available to determine a logical theorem concerning the origins of the universe. He then tries to dismiss the "evolving" notion by employing the exact same argument. It reinforces the "I'm right, they're obviously wrong" among the duller-witted.

Bean 8,503 19
09/24/2002 09:53 PM

Oops. Seems to be the "abouts" of the book.



Here's some more reading.

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/24/2002 09:56 PM

Try this.

Doc 7,105 13
09/24/2002 10:01 PM

"history has demonstrated, Doc, that listening to the Christians is not a sound long-term policy."



Yes, as much as I enjoy not actually hearing what the other side has to say and spouting off my opinions, unfortunately I've picked up this nasty habit somewhere down the road listening to the opposing argument, and using bits of informations from that to form my own argument.

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/24/2002 10:06 PM

How about this then...



"History has demonstrated that any group of people who wholeheartedly agree on the specifics of a completely unprovable concept that somehow determines the expected behaviors and laws of all people (not just that group) under a supposed penalty of eternal torment are a bunch of ridiculous, demented whackjobs."

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/24/2002 10:08 PM

But I say that with love in my heart.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/24/2002 10:09 PM

Creationist thought process:



Creationist: There is no proof of evolution.



Evolutionist: But there is strong evidence. Where is the evidence of creationism?



Creationist: It says right here in page one of the bible! That there is solid proof!

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/24/2002 10:14 PM

In order to prove Creationism, you have to discard the Bible, then gather all knowledge about the earth, build your theories, empirically test them, and assemble the resulting theories based on that data.



Then you can compare it to the Bible. If it reads like a carbon copy, you've got something demonstratable there. If not, you've got to have the strength to face it.

Bean 8,503 19
09/24/2002 10:31 PM

Actually Nutty, most Christians have had their own experiences (I've shared a couple of mine) that prove to them that God is real, and therefore proving that the Bible is real.

My hubby is gay 1,522 10
09/24/2002 10:31 PM

In order to believe in GOD creationism would have to be thrown out or modified to accept the single fact-which all religiuos scholars would detest to do-that our Little Blue Marble is 4 BILLION YEARS OLD.



If you want me to believe in God, let religion and science marry the ideas. Not try and disprove each other.



"Belief is a matter of faith"

Bean 8,503 19
09/24/2002 10:34 PM

The whole thing about discarding the Bible to prove creation is understandable. And although Kent Hovind's credentials may not be very good, he makes some excellent arguments. Prod around his website and see what you find.



As far as thinking the Bible is not true, we could also assume that any other historical documents are not true based on the fact that no one living today actually saw them being written.

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/24/2002 10:36 PM

Bean, lemme ask then... You say you know God is real. Cool. Fine. Knock yourself out. You believe in a Supreme Being.



How do you know this is the specific God that's referenced in the King James, and not the Talmud? Or the Koran?

Jay Cornelius 411 13
09/24/2002 10:38 PM

Don't let the first two chapters of Genesis hold you up if you think there's a God out there.



There are plenty of theists who are "theistic evolutionists". That is, they fully embrace the current theory of evolution and happen to believe in a higher power as well.



It can be done. The creation/evolution debate is largely irrelevant to my faith life anyway. Its only value is to make great movies like Inherit The Wind and to serve as a smokescreen by people who don't want to admit that their personal pain in life is fueling an argument they want to pretend is about science and theology.

My hubby is gay 1,522 10
09/24/2002 10:41 PM

That last paragraph is so deep I'm still trying to find out what it means.

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/24/2002 10:45 PM

You don't know my pain, damn you! YOU DON'T KNOW MY PA... oh, you have a toothache too? Nevermind.

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/24/2002 10:53 PM

I shall now realize, within the next five seconds, the futility of arguing Creationism vs. Evolution on an Internet message board.



Ahem.



(pause)



Oh. Heh.



Yeah, whatever.

Dead Robot 67,630 16
09/24/2002 11:02 PM

Jeasus is love is heaven is right up there, man.

Doc 7,105 13
09/24/2002 11:45 PM

IS GOD SUPPOSED TO BE OMNISCIENT

Doc 7,105 13
09/24/2002 11:46 PM

That would seem to be an essential factor in determining the validity of God.

Dirk Lately 14,001 13
09/24/2002 11:46 PM

Omniscent - smells like everything

Dirk Lately 14,001 13
09/24/2002 11:52 PM

I believe that the Judeo-Christian understanding is that He exists in all points in time at once, and therefore necessarily understands what to us is the future.

Jay Cornelius 411 13
09/24/2002 11:58 PM

Asking what God sees & knows is a little bit like asking a car's gas tank what the headlights are viewing. We probably wouldn't understand it anyway.



The understanding from scripture and tradition is that God is indeed all-knowing, and yet God extends freewill to the max, almost forming an "event horizon" of human choice and God's foreknowledge curling like the top of a wave.

Jay Cornelius 411 13
09/24/2002 11:59 PM

Okay, that crap about the wave isn't from tradition or scripture - it's just something that occured to me once while I was separating bologna and trying to keep grease out of my fingernails.

Dirk Lately 14,001 13
09/25/2002 12:04 AM

Still, it was gnarly.

Doc 7,105 13
09/25/2002 12:14 AM

Well we're made in God's image, and throughout the Bible God has definetly had likes and dislikes. He had *acted* like he has had no knowledge of the future, though he very well could have. Though it stands to reason that if he indeed knows all, why create us? He wanted something to populate a reality he created, so he created little mini-Gods. Yet why if he knew where it was going to go? Who knows? But the Bible seems to indicate (at least to me anyway) that he doesn't know what the future holds.



The other question is, if Man was created in God's image, what the hell is Jesus, and why is he so much more in God's image then we are? This would seem to indicate that a world of Jesus-Men, made in God's image would not be as desireable as a world of Regular-Men. Unless of course he *couldn't* create a Jesus-Man *without* the pre-existance of Regular-Man. Which would seem to indicate that he's also not all powerful in the ability to create EVERYTHING and all in reality.

Doc 7,105 13
09/25/2002 12:30 AM

"The understanding from scripture and tradition is that God is indeed all-knowing"



So I will assume that God knows everything, and it *does* have it's purpose, we just don't understand, or are unable to understand. Which is fine.



But what bother's me is why would he ever get mad ever at the Shakespeare that ever happened? There is definetly a difference in the old testament God and the new testament god (I will ignore the argument that this is a reflection on the type of people in society, God, Religion, are not Stable and Determinate as they SHOULD be if they are real, but seem to change as precariously as the wind, always reflecting current society, but anyway) and that it took the birth of his son Jesus Christ to cause him to change.



Why? If, a thousand years before the birth of Christ, there were factions of Man who had no knowledge of God whatsoever. When God created man, he knew that would happen, yet he didn't work to prevent it, which assumes that they were *not* supposed to know.



Why would he willingly let people live in the shadow, and not bask in His glory?



No, it seems to me that God also doesn't know where the future goes.

Doc 7,105 13
09/25/2002 12:38 AM

But don't get me wrong, I'm not here arguing other people to what *I* beleive, I'm arguing points to get more information. By all means, if I'm wrong about anything, let me know.

Feeble, Iraqi Weapons Inspector #27 32,400 15
09/25/2002 12:53 AM

Let me state it again.



Evolution, in the course of saying that it meets the facts better than the competing theories, one of which is Special Creation, explicitly makes assumptions about the nature of God.



So much so that it is farcical to say otherwise. Most of these assumptions are negative in nature, i.e., "God wouldn't create what we find in nature", but they are nonetheless statements about the nature of God and are therefore theological in nature.



To teach evolution is not to teach athiesm. It is also not to deny the existence of God in any way.



It DOES make some statements about the nature of God, and so far as those statements go, evolution is religious in nature.

Reek Stankleberry 3,653 12
09/25/2002 01:09 AM

I didn't come from no monkey, yo. I never lived in a tree, and I don't even like monkey ladies.

Squeamish 38,986 14
09/25/2002 01:28 AM

>"Yeah, 24 bucks in beads is a GREAT price for this island!"



If the Indians had invested that $24 and gotten 8% per year they'd have more money than the island of Manhattan is worth today.



So it was poor investment strategy that screwed the Indians*, not the white man.







*especially considering that Peter Minuit "bought" the island from Indians that didn't even live there or "own" it.

The Light Switch of Total Devestation 19,936 13
09/25/2002 01:54 AM

why on earth would would evolution have anything to say on what god would or would not do?



If you consider them valid suggestions, the "God did it" theories will always beat the scientific theories wherever there's a hole until science fills in the hole. So whenever we can't figure something out, God did it. Until we figure it out, then woops he didn't do that but he did do this other stuff that we can't figure out. Woops figured that out too.

Doc 7,105 13
09/25/2002 02:03 AM

Well, I *do* have to give that some clickies, heheheh.

Doc 7,105 13
09/25/2002 02:08 AM

"God makes people have eyeballs! Read Mark 4:11-21!"



"No, it was these things called Genes!"



"No, God made them!"



*time passes*



"Well, alright the pax 9 gene creates eyeballs, but we are a faction of people that beleive that gene's are gods tools!"

Zappa Krappa 1,896 12
09/25/2002 02:08 AM

yeah, and if god is really all impotent, then how did he impregnate mary?

christians can be so dumb sometimes.

Doc 7,105 13
09/25/2002 02:09 AM

"Read Mark 4:11-21, they're metaphors for genes!"

Zappa Krappa 1,896 12
09/25/2002 02:15 AM

<action>has moment of clarity</action>

damn, lost it.

Doc 7,105 13
09/25/2002 02:17 AM

That's an incredibly good point. If God really does exist, then the Bible would have made tons of mentions to things that we wouldn't understand until we got more knowledge. Instead, it seems to make even LESS sense, the more time goes by.



"God? How does this tree grow?"



"Well, the leaves contain something called 'chloroforms', my son."



"I don't understand, God! I can't see them! But I will trust you, and believe and have faith in you, because you say it is so."



*anti-christians*



"Bah! You and you're Frost-ing CHLOROFORMS!! Where the hell are they? I see nothing!!"



*after microscopes are invented*



"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, NOW we get it!"





But no, the bible, and all of religious history has been pretty much the opposite.



"God, how did you make us?"



"Well, I invented something called 'DNA' and..."



"DNA? Bah!! I will not believe this!?!"



*years later*



"Oooooooohhhh, so *that's* what God meant!!"

Feeble, Iraqi Weapons Inspector #27 32,400 15
09/25/2002 08:19 AM

Only if you think that God really cares how much science we know. I think God cares a lot more about how I treat other people than He does about how much I know about Science.



So, why would God tell us a bunch of stuff that he basically considers irrelevant? The Bible is about how people should treat each other.

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/25/2002 08:40 AM

The Bible is about how people should treat each other.



Funny, considering how "God" treats us...



"Oh Lord, why won't you intervene in worldly affairs and make the world a better place?"



"Can't."



"Can't or won't? I thought you were omnipotent."



"Okay, okay, won't. Nitpicker."



"So you won't ever intervene?"



"That's correct."



"So tell me then, why in the world do millions of people bother to pray to you daily for intervention?"



"Ya got me."



"And also, what's the real point in worshipping you if you're an absentee god?"



"Been wondering that myself."

Feeble, possessed by the demon Chackens 32,400 15
09/25/2002 09:23 AM

On the other hand, there is this passage, which is technologically interesting.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/25/2002 09:27 AM

There are plenty of theists who are "theistic evolutionists". That is, they fully embrace the current theory of evolution and happen to believe in a higher power as well.



It can be done.



I agree. There is no bigger religious nut than my mom and even she thinks creationism is a load of crap. She's smart enough to know the "seven days" thing probably happened in God Days. ie., Bullions and bullions of years.

Feeble, possessed by the demon Chackens 32,400 15
09/25/2002 09:29 AM

Sleestack, perhaps every single person who's ever gotten over any illness was healed by God in part or whole; et cetera, et cetera.



If you read the New Testement, Jesus used to get pretty peeved with people who kept asking for miracles and signs. I get the idea that God thinks He's given us what we need to get the job done.



For example, there is sufficient food grown to feed everyone on earth. No one should be hungry. But food is wasted in some places while it's scarce in others - link .



How many of our problems are the results of similar human failings? In other words, if we got the 'be totally excellent to one another' part of life down, how many problems would be left?

Feeble, possessed by the demon Chackens 32,400 15
09/25/2002 09:30 AM

Nutbutter - your mom believes that God coats years with precious metals?

Jay Cornelius 411 13
09/25/2002 09:31 AM

Sleestack and Doc, you are asking very good questions - and probably the hardest ones to answer.



I really think it all comes down to freewill.



Slee - clearly it annoys you that God doesn't step in to the rescue and prevent evil from occuring. And yet I don't see a clear alternative to freewill. Would you want your life to suddenly be controlled, as a marionette on strings - yanked back with no freedom for you to make mistakes?



Doc - There is scripture indicating God was disappointed with humanity (e.g. Noah's Ark), so I understand how this appears to fly in the face of a model of God being all-knowing. My answer: I have no idea how that works because I am like an ant in ant-farm moving in two dimensions whereas God is like in 11 dimensions.



PS - Squeamish is almost in 4 dimensions and I will be too if I don't learn how to put down the fork.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/25/2002 09:34 AM

It DOES make some statements about the nature of God, and so far as those statements go, evolution is religious in nature.



Only to people who believe in god.



Evolution is the best theory we have that doesn't need a god to work. For that reason, it should be taught in public schools. I agree that we should probably make sure we add "this is a theory" when we teach it, so as not to offend the god lovers out there. But teaching creationism in school requires teaching a God, and that has no place in public school until we can all agree on who or what god is.



Teaching evolution doesn't even bring up a god. It does not make any assumptions about god at all.



If you believe a spotted blue doggie created the earth, teaching evolution does not say "there is no blue dog." It just doesn't consider that there may or may not be a blue doggie. Why should a public school even mention the blue dog? It is up to you to teach your own children about the blue dog. It is not up to me to deny the existence of one to everyone else.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/25/2002 09:36 AM

Bean, here is some good reading for you.



While they don't have the credentials that Dr. Nick Riviera does, and I'm sure it wont change your mind on the subject, it may do you well to get some education beyond a Davy and Goliath video.

Feeble, possessed by the demon Chackens 32,400 15
09/25/2002 09:43 AM

Nutbutter, I agree that evolution should be taught in schools. But the scientific method requires competition among theories. In the course of saying that "evolution fits the available facts better than creation", assumptions about what God would, and would not, do are made.



If you look at the most common arguments advanced for why evolution fits the available facts (fossil record, DNA, homlogous structures among disparate species, et cetera), each one of them requires certain assumptions that God didn't do 'X' in order for evolution to BEST fit the facts.



And no, I'm not a young earth creationist.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/25/2002 09:47 AM

Don't you get it, Feeble?



It is not making an assumption about God. It is not even bringing God up.



Creationism: A+B+God = C



Evolution: A+B=C



It is not saying "A+B-God=C"



It is not making an assumption about God any more than it is making an assumption about the spotted blue doggie. As far as a creationist is concerned it is making an assumption about god, sure. But just because a creationist believes in a god does not mean I have to consider that god in everything I do.

Dead Robot 67,630 16
09/25/2002 09:52 AM

You know I'm right.



No I'm right.



Maybe but you're wrong.



Ok I'm right but you're wrong.



Did you say something, I said I was right.



You're right? No I'm right.



But I'm right because...



...you said that up there. I'm right because...



No, that's not right. I know I'm right because I have a link.



That's a dead link. So I am right.



No, to be right you must have proof.



Right! And I showed you proof so I am right.



ad nauseum.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/25/2002 09:52 AM

You're wrong, Ted.

Feeble, possessed by the demon Chackens 32,400 15
09/25/2002 09:54 AM

You're not getting it.



Evolution does not include God. So far, we are in agreement.

But the Scientific Method requires you to compare competing theories that attempt to explain the same facts. Creationism is one of the competing theories.

When saying Evolution BEST fits the facts, assumptions about God are made in the course of disparaging Creationism.

Have you ever heard of Phlogiston chemistry? It was a competing theory with atom - based chemistry through into the 19th century. It couldn't be completely disproven until the advent of SEM let us see atoms, but had fallen into disfavor long before, because atom chemistry fit the available facts better. Better. Both theories could explain the available facts.

Creation does explain the available facts. Teaching a kid to choose evolution requires certain assumptions about God.

Feeble, possessed by the demon Chackens 32,400 15
09/25/2002 09:55 AM

Dead Robot is a highly evolved sort of beaver known as Canadianis MockAmericans.

Dead Robot 67,630 16
09/25/2002 09:56 AM

You people are HOBbling this board.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/25/2002 09:58 AM

Creationism is one of the competing theories.



But because it requires "and then God did this..." it is not exactly a valid scientific theory.



I give up. You win. Praise Jesus.



heh. HOBing. I love it.

Feeble, possessed by the demon Chackens 32,400 15
09/25/2002 10:01 AM

HOBbling. It's what happens when Evil Panda, Ford Prefect, Mike Moon, and postbear do the bling-bling.

Jay Cornelius 411 13
09/25/2002 10:02 AM

House Of Blues?

Feeble, possessed by the demon Chackens 32,400 15
09/25/2002 10:03 AM

Nuttles, I didn't say Creationism was good science. I just said that it was treated as a competing theory.



The question comes down to: "Is everything explainable via purely mechanistic means?". Most scientists would be very uncomfortable if it were somehow proven that the answer is "no", but we certainly haven't proven that the answer is "yes", either.

Professor Nutbutter 181,255 35
09/25/2002 10:04 AM

I love it when old white guys try to talk ghetto.



"So, son, I'd like to talk to you about doing the drugs. I hear you kids like to puff on the mary jane or pop a roll of ecstasy to get your high on..."

Jay Cornelius 411 13
09/25/2002 10:22 AM

Feeble, don't you think we can just let the schools teach the prevailing scientific theory d'jour and not worry so much about getting a quota of creationism in there?



I understand you think it may be biased, but the defense of creationist theory has been, in my opinion, a black-eye on the church for almost a hundred years.



If science announced tomorrow that every missing link to evolution had been found, and that it was now fact and no longer just theory, it would not affect my Christianity for a hill o' beans.



This is because the creation vs. evolution argument is not only a tangent but it is full of shades of gray. It is not even the hinge of our faith. The hinge is the crucifixion/resurrection/atonement offered by God in Jesus Christ. Now THAT'S a spicy meatball!

Feeble, possessed by the demon Chackens 32,400 15
09/25/2002 10:38 AM

Well, evolution per se doesn't affect Christianity. The underlying assumption that God is disengaged from Creation strikes at the heart.



In my lifetime, I've watched Christianity go from what everyone pretended to be whether they were or not, to somewhat declasse. I think that's probably a change for the better.

Cap'n Stuby 17,826 13
09/25/2002 11:00 AM

If evolution was real, I'd have an electric guitar for a penis.





SO STICK IT DOWN YO MOUF, HEATHEN BASTARDS!

Cap'n Stuby 17,826 13
09/25/2002 11:04 AM

I have a passing familiarity with the scientific method, too. I also happen to have read many articles in anthropological journals (NOTE: THESE ARE PEER-REVIEWED JOURNALS) and the reason evolution is called a theory is because there is room to disprove it. Evolution and creationism could be totally false for all science knows. The Earth could have been created by a fabric rift in space that forced subatomic particles to mesh and form elements and after trillions of years, the space fluctuation forces brought the elements into spherical shapes and so on and so on.



You can't disprove it and I make the assumption on several well-tested theories and facts, plus several good guesses. Therefore, my theory is better than all of your theories put together and if you need either of us, we'll be in the closet with this month's Hustler and a box of Kleenex.





Thank you.

Cap'n Stuby 17,826 13
09/25/2002 11:09 AM

I agree with Jay. You have two choices: You can either believe that the universe has a grand design and something responsible for it or you can believe that it's all utter chaos and you don't amount to a stink molecule in the middle of New Jersey. The former gives you some kind of stability when things go wrong. The latter forces you into a state of helplessness and you turn into Manhattan Fever or Doc or God Help You, Benny Hinn.



BENNY HINN IS EVIL WITH A PRIZE INSIDE.

Sleestack 30,342 13
09/25/2002 11:58 AM

Slee - clearly it annoys you that God doesn't step in to the rescue and prevent evil from occuring.



As I'm uncertain that there is a God, it would be pretty hard to get annoyed at the behavior of an uncertainty. I get peeved at mankind's ridiculous interpretations of a supreme being. I get peeved when someone accepts the concept of Christianity just because it hurts their brainpans too much to consider the alternatives. I get peeved when one dismisses other religious notions as flawed and not the path to "salvation".



I get peeved when the corner store's out of Snickers Bars.